posted 12-04-2009 09:21 AM               

Just felt like putting this out there. I wasn't sure if anyone else wrote anything about her like this either, and I was WAY to lazy to go look for it.

I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts about my theory.

posted 01-07-2010 12:07 AM               

This is somewhat irrelevant with the reincarnation thingy, but I'd still want to share: I'm confused at first because I really thought Candle's daughter isn't Liir's at all. I thought I read that Candle's uncle left her in the mauntery because she might be already pregnant, and he can't take another responsibility, or something like that. I'm not sure. There are several hints that I think somewhat support that, but then in the end, when the baby turned out green, I realized it really was Liir's.

posted 01-27-2010 03:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by WitchBoy06:
Goshgoshgosh! You are SO in my heart! I am of the same mind. Glinda is very intriguing and her parts in the books are totally awesome. Im Gaga for Lady Glinda. Yep.

---

posted 02-07-2010 11:06 AM               

------------------
Give me room to cast my eel spear and let follow what may.

posted 03-05-2010 01:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nessaheart:
[off-topic] History, you're quite the storyteller. Might I suggest that you check out fanfiction.net, if you haven't already? [/off-topic]

---

Thank you! I'll check it out

posted 03-05-2010 01:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by muse1176:
I like the idea of what you've written here History, very much. But I am pretty sure she would know her Grandmothers name

---

posted 03-07-2010 07:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by muse1176:
As soon as the child goes to school or out in public the chins would begin to wag. News of a green child would travel very fast in Oz. There would be no hiding the truth from her I wouldn't imagine. I can imagine Glinda hearing of the green child and sending for them immediately. Guess we have to wait and see which way GM takes us

---

posted 04-03-2010 11:03 PM               

When Lirr found his daughter, she wasn't savage and definatly didn't recoil from water, seeing as he held her in the rain to wash her off.

I thought Maguire made Liir's daughter green so that Liir could have no doubt that he is Elphaba's son.

posted 04-16-2010 04:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by greenstock:
I assumed that she was green for two reasons; First, to proove that Liir was the son of Elphaba and Fiyero (that would leave little doubt, if the son of the green girl had a green girl himself, right?), and to proove that she was his girl and Candle did not lie when she said that she and Liir had...sex. So with one swift sentence, GM displaced all of our doubt.

However...we all think Elphie was green because she drank the miracle elixer, but who is to say that Yackle did not administer said elixer to Candle at the Mauntery when she locked her up with Liir before she milked him of his poison to save his life?

---

No, we all don't think that. People who have seen the Musical think that. But not everyone thinks the Elixer is the reason she is green. Leaving out that Yackle administered the potion to Candle is a bit convenient don't you think? Especially if it is mentioned in that last story. That's just bad story telling. I agree with you 100% in the first part of the post, the baby was green to prove once and for all that Liir was Elphaba's son and the the bady was his and also, to carry the story on

posted 04-16-2010 11:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kike720:
****slapping forehead**** kind of harsh minxy , no?

---

posted 04-17-2010 02:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by muse1176:
No, we all don't think that. People who have seen the Musical think that. But not everyone thinks the Elixer is the reason she is green. Leaving out that Yackle administered the potion to Candle is a bit convenient don't you think? Especially if it is mentioned in that last story. That's just bad story telling. I agree with you 100% in the first part of the post, the baby was green to prove once and for all that Liir was Elphaba's son and the the bady was his and also, to carry the story on

---

Actually, I am not even sure I believe that myself. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that everyone thought that, but from what I have read most do. I haven't seen the musical yet, so that wouldn't sway me either. From what I understand the musical and the book are two completely separate entities (both good in their own way?). I'm not so sure about the elixer making Elphie green, I was simply speculating. Yackle drank it too, and there were no effects on her, right? I think GM leaves out alot though. I wouldn't put it past him, but you are certainly right, leaving something like that out is quite convenient.

posted 04-17-2010 07:03 AM            

It is a bit of a mystery, the elixir seems to affect everyone differently. In the case of Melena I think that it drugged her, made her sleepy or possibly lowered her inhabitions and allowed the WoO the have his way with her. With Elphaba it brought her dreams of the 'Other World'. With Yackle (from Memory) it turned her into a true oracal. Didn't Nanny sip it as well? I think it's nearly time I re-visited the series again to freshen my memory.

posted 04-17-2010 05:25 PM            

quote:

---

originally posted by greenstock:
Actually, I am not even sure I believe that myself. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that everyone thought that, but from what I have read most do. I haven't seen the musical yet, so that wouldn't sway me either. From what I understand the musical and the book are two completely separate entities (both good in their own way?). I'm not so sure about the elixer making Elphie green, I was simply speculating. Yackle drank it too, and there were no effects on her, right? I think GM leaves out alot though. I wouldn't put it past him, but you are certainly right, leaving something like that out is quite convenient.

But, if the elixer had no effect on Elphaba (or Melena) why is it in the story at all? I keep trying to get my head around that one. Also, what does the elixer have to do with the Wizard being Elphie's father? This series is so titilating and baffling, I love it!

---

(Might I point out that Dorothy took the bottle of green elixir with her when she went back to the Wizard after the Witch was... dealt with, so Yackle couldn't have had it to start with.)

Well. The Wizard is Elphaba's father, and my guess is that the main purpose of the green elixir was to get Melena "drunk" enough for that to happen. (I say "drunk" only because though it does make her kind of tipsy, it's not necessarily alcohol.) Also, it's the one tie actual tie between Melena, Elphaba, and the Wizard. At the end of the book, when the Wizard saw the bottle he "gasped, and clutched his heart." (very last page of the paperback) I figure he put two and two together and realized he'd had some sort of relationship with Elphaba, though he might not know what relationship that was.

------------------

posted 04-18-2010 10:52 AM               

But on the other hand, the Wizard just might change all his ways, and his heart would grow three sizes, and he'd give up his throne to the WWOTW...

Not!

So anyways: Elphaba Lives!, Glinda Glitters!, and Yackle Cackles!

------------------
Who dat? -Ellen DeGeneres

posted 04-18-2010 06:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nessaheart:
(Might I point out that Dorothy took the bottle of green elixir with her when she went back to the Wizard after the Witch was... dealt with, so Yackle couldn't have had it to start with.)

Well. The Wizard is Elphaba's father, and my guess is that the main purpose of the green elixir was to get Melena "drunk" enough for that to happen. (I say "drunk" only because though it does make her kind of tipsy, it's not necessarily alcohol.) Also, it's the one tie actual tie between Melena, Elphaba, and the Wizard. At the end of the book, when the Wizard saw the bottle he "gasped, and clutched his heart." (very last page of the paperback) I figure he put two and two together and realized he'd had some sort of relationship with Elphaba, though he might not know what relationship that was.

---

Thank you for posting this. I had completely forgotten about Dorothy bringing the bottle back. I was thinking how does Yackle have the bottle at the mauntuary, I was sure she didn't but couldnt recall what had happened to it.

posted 04-20-2010 12:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nessaheart:
(Might I point out that Dorothy took the bottle of green elixir with her when she went back to the Wizard after the Witch was... dealt with, so Yackle couldn't have had it to start with.)

Well. The Wizard is Elphaba's father, and my guess is that the main purpose of the green elixir was to get Melena "drunk" enough for that to happen. (I say "drunk" only because though it does make her kind of tipsy, it's not necessarily alcohol.) Also, it's the one tie actual tie between Melena, Elphaba, and the Wizard. At the end of the book, when the Wizard saw the bottle he "gasped, and clutched his heart." (very last page of the paperback) I figure he put two and two together and realized he'd had some sort of relationship with Elphaba, though he might not know what relationship that was.

---

Yes, Dorothy did take it to the Wizard as proof that she did as asked and got rid of the Witch. But, we don't know what happened to it after that, so we?

And, I hate to poke holes in anyone else' theories, but, I disagree that the elixer was to lower Melena's inhibitions. She wouldn't need any elixer (or anything else for that matter), because she was willing, very willing to sleep with whatever man she met. That was kinda the biggest thing we learned about her, that she was a slut. The Wizard, I am sure was no exception. Also, the elixer did different things to other people (in the case of Elphie it gave her dreams where she would see things happening much like an oracle, and in Yackle, it also gave her seeing abilities), so who are we to say what it did to Melena? And, whatever was IN the elixer to begin with was probably a concoction of the Wizards and he could have made more at any time (unless the recipe was from the Grimmerie and he didn't have the book at the time).

posted 04-20-2010 12:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by WitchBoy06:
Well, he would have used it against her. Elphaba would be crazy, wondering if he was really her father. I really don't think the story would be much different. The wizard was evil and stuff, and he would've just continued trying to kill Elphaba or something.

But on the other hand, the Wizard just might change all his ways, and his heart would grow three sizes, and he'd give up his throne to the WWOTW...

Not!

So anyways: Elphaba Lives!, Glinda Glitters!, and Yackle Cackles!

---

posted 04-20-2010 04:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by greenstock:
Yes, Dorothy did take it to the Wizard as proof that she did as asked and got rid of the Witch. But, we don't know what happened to it after that, so we?

And, I hate to poke holes in anyone else' theories, but, I disagree that the elixer was to lower Melena's inhibitions. She wouldn't need any elixer (or anything else for that matter), because she was willing, very willing to sleep with whatever man she met. That was kinda the biggest thing we learned about her, that she was a slut. The Wizard, I am sure was no exception. Also, the elixer did different things to other people (in the case of Elphie it gave her dreams where she would see things happening much like an oracle, and in Yackle, it also gave her seeing abilities), so who are we to say what it did to Melena? And, whatever was IN the elixer to begin with was probably a concoction of the Wizards and he could have made more at any time (unless the recipe was from the Grimmerie and he didn't have the book at the time).

Thank you for reminding me, but I know that the Wizard is Elphie's father. If the bottle of elixer (or the green bottle more accurately) was the tie that held Melena, Elphie and the Wizard, it was a weak one, as anyone could obtain the bottle as they did (Nanny had it, and Dorothy took it as well, so it could have been taken by anyone for any reason). Yeah, he was shocked, and clasped his heart, put two and two together...probably the reason he left Oz to begin with.

---

**ALAM SPOILERS**
I would be really surprised if the bottle is brought up again, in such a fashion to fill in a possible plot hole, which really isn't there. There is sufficient reasoning as to why the baby is green and (I feel) the addition of Yackle obtaining the bottle again and administering it to Nor is really unnecessary.

If you recall, when the dwarf showed Elphaba her origins via the Clock of the Time Dragon, when Melena drank the elixir she appeared drunk. We all know Melena was pretty free and easy, but the Wizard didn't and would have wanted to ensure he got his way. (Side note: in this part of the book, the dwarf also tells Elphie why she is the way she is (green) because she is of both worlds, a half breed.)

And I also wanted to point out that it's not clear that the elixir made Elphie a Seer, it brought her a wild dream of the ocean and what lay beyond the great desert, but that appeared to be all. She had no other or noticeable new abilities when Dorothy and the gang came to Kiamo Ko other than her will over animals. Which is why I say it affected everyone differently.

If the elixir is still in OZ and/or if GM uses it in anyway, perhaps someone new will drink it. But I cannot see him going back to fill in a plot hole that as I said, really isn't there.

(and don't worry about poking holes in peoples theories.. that's what we're here for isn't it? LOL )

posted 04-23-2010 08:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kike720:
I remember somone posting that the name Nessarose means "daughter of Liir". Is that the possible. I don't really like that, why name his daughter after an unknown aunt, but he knew that she was his aunt after the babye was green.
PS: Is Westwitch07 the same person as Witchboy??

---

No, it's not possible. "Nessarose" does not mean "daughter of Liir" - Nessarose is the daughter of Frex and I don't think Liir would name his daughter after an aunt he never met.

Yes, westwitch07 and Witchboy are the same person.

posted 05-09-2010 08:13 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by greenstock:
Touche'!

---

Sorry. I think I was having a bad day. :/

posted 07-01-2010 11:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rhymes with:
[SPOILER ALERT! IF YOU HAVE NOT READ LION AMONG MEN, DO NOT READ THIS POST!]You know, maybe the green coloring could fade as she grows. Like babies' eyes change color sometimes. Some kind of survival gene that proves to Liir that she's his for sure so he'll care for her more, but she outgrows.As the green fades, the yellowish tone of her grandfather's skin emerges.(or something like that). This is fun. Also Malena was, at least an alchoholic. She would have probably used anything as long as she got high. I like that the elixir treated everyone differently. Malena was a party girl, Elphaba's from two worlds, & Yackle was born in a book. It makes sense.

[This message has been edited by rhymes with (edited 06-22-2010).]

---

Nah, I don't agree with you when you say that the granddaughter's green skin tone might fade. Elphaba's skin color didn't fade, so I'm doubting that her granddaughter's will. And by the way, Fiyero's skin was a shade of brown, not yellow.