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Author Topic:   The "Unlimited" theme
no one mourns the wicked!
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posted 07-03-2005 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for no one mourns the wicked!   Click Here to Email no one mourns the wicked!     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just some extra info i picked up...

Throughout the musical, Steven Schwartz (composer and lyricsist) decided to incorporate a common theme in the music. There are many, but one of the most noticible themes is the "..Unlimited" theme. It can be seen in "The Wizard and I", "Defying Gravity" and at the beginning of "For Good" ( "Im limited"). But why did he choose this? The answer is hidden in the notes of the sequence that he uses. Think back to The Wizard of Oz. Sing the first 7 notes of Somewhere Over the Rainbow..."Somewhere, over the rainbow"...then, sing the first 7 notes to the Unlimited theme..."Unlimited, together..." or "Unlimited, my future..." THEY ARE IDENTICAL. Tricky, huh? Wicked can't be sued because although the notes are the same, it is a completely different rythm and theme. Sweet! Just a little note, feel free to reply on any other tricks u have found in the music.

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Elphaba
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posted 07-03-2005 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elphaba   Click Here to Email Elphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the orignal San Fransico production it was also repeated in "No Good Deed." "Unlimited, the damage is unlimited".

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ElphabaOfOz
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posted 07-05-2005 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ElphabaOfOz   Click Here to Email ElphabaOfOz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a forum to discuss the musical, this is the forum for the book, which is completely different.

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no one mourns the wicked!
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posted 07-05-2005 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for no one mourns the wicked!   Click Here to Email no one mourns the wicked!     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok, sweet, its all the same to me. besides, ur only a true wicked fan if u know about the musical too...

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ElphabaOfOz
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posted 07-05-2005 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ElphabaOfOz   Click Here to Email ElphabaOfOz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True.

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Saint Aelphaba
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posted 07-12-2005 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saint Aelphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really thought it was intresting how "The Wizard and I" is such a triumphant song in itself and such a hopeful song. but the lyrics are so diffrent in the meaning. "a celabration throught OZ thats all to do with Me!" thats what Elphaba said, but thats not what she meant. True there was a celebration, but celbrating her death. Also another thing on the "unlimted" theme. I also felt that, the song "the wizard and I," and the song "defying gravity" all those songs you can tell that Elphaba is so hopeful, and feels that her future and that she herself is unlimted. But than, everything she wants and hopes for, a loving father, someone to love her, and being by the Wizard's side. everything she wants comes crashing down on her. And she really is, as "For good" says "Limted."

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Elphaba
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posted 07-12-2005 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elphaba   Click Here to Email Elphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, it's very obvious- Elphaba DOES get a glimpse of the future, people will see her and scream. There will be a celebtation through out Oz that's all to do with her.

And she'd be so happy she could melt.

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ThroughDifferentEyes
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posted 07-17-2005 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThroughDifferentEyes   Click Here to Email ThroughDifferentEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, and there are other ironic references like that throughout Schwartz's lyrics. One of my favorites is when future scarecrow Fiyero, in his love-duet with Elphaba, sings: "Maybe I'm brainless, maybe I'm wise...."

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Elphaba
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posted 07-17-2005 04:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elphaba   Click Here to Email Elphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Lifes more painless, for the brainless"...

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Try Defying Gravity
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posted 08-03-2005 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Try Defying Gravity     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed the Unlimited theme too. I think it's quite sad the way the first 2 times it's hopeful and then it's giving up hope.

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ThroughDifferentEyes
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posted 08-04-2005 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThroughDifferentEyes   Click Here to Email ThroughDifferentEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TDG,

It's not giving up hope. It's recognizing the truth of her humanity, which is also a kind of liberation. The second reference is already a step in that direction, when Elphie sings, TOGETHER we're unlimited. She is already aware that no one can do it alone.

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elphaba_rocks
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posted 08-06-2005 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elphaba_rocks   Click Here to Email elphaba_rocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
like i said before they are close but not the same tune or notes

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ThroughDifferentEyes
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posted 08-07-2005 02:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ThroughDifferentEyes   Click Here to Email ThroughDifferentEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And, like before, you would be in error, e.r.

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elphaba_rocks
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posted 08-07-2005 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for elphaba_rocks   Click Here to Email elphaba_rocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not wrong, everyone keeps saying they have to same notes, a few notes are the same but not all of them.
"THEY ARE IDENTICAL." technically they a not identical. God people the notes are different!

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g(a)linda
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posted 08-09-2005 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for g(a)linda   Click Here to Email g(a)linda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
its true they are not the same. i have the sheet music right here infron of me and they are not the same. true they have a few simalar note but are not exactly alike as some one was saying

god its my fist post and im already disagreeing with people.

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Saint Aelphaba
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posted 08-09-2005 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saint Aelphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh thats ok. your not ALWAYS supposed to agree. my first like 7 posts were all disaggreeing. :-)

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elphaba_rocks
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posted 08-09-2005 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elphaba_rocks   Click Here to Email elphaba_rocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thank you G(a)linda, i have been saying to everyone they are different, and nobody beleived me!

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Saint Aelphaba
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posted 08-09-2005 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saint Aelphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
they are diffrent. I've played them and listened to them time and time and again. There are similarties in the music. (which i like it ties it together.) but in now way are the same.

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Dr. Dillamond
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posted 08-11-2005 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Dillamond     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry folks...transcribed them myself...the notes ARE in fact the same...the rhythms are not. If you sing the notes for SOMEWHERE OVER...slowly...and sing the notes to UNLIMITED theme...slowly...you will find they are the same.

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Elphaba
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posted 08-11-2005 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elphaba   Click Here to Email Elphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But "Unlimited"/"I'm limited" is four syllables and seven. They don't seem to really fit to me at all...

*confused*

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Saint Aelphaba
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posted 08-11-2005 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saint Aelphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
they dont fit. It may sound the same, but there not. Becuase the tempo is diffrent. The beats are diffrent. it may sound the same but it's not identical.

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Dr. Dillamond
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posted 08-11-2005 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Dillamond     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, read carefully...the NOTES are the same, the RHYTHMS are not. It is a fact, and I'll give you Stephen Schwartz's email address so you can ask him...he purposely used the first 7 notes of "SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW" to create the "UNLIMITED Theme."

It is his homage to Harold Arlen the composer lyricist of MGM's "OZ."

Notes yes. Rhythms no...and the rhythms change a little depending on the lyrics as well when we hear it the second time (in DEFYING) and the third time (in FOR GOOD).

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Dr. Dillamond
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posted 08-11-2005 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Dillamond     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
note lyrics
1 Un = Some
2 Li = where
3 mit = ov
4 ted = er
5 my = the
6 fu = rain
7 tur = bow

now, if he had reached the 8th note...which mataches with the "SOMEWHERE" lyric "way" ("up high") he would have been sued...lol! Nice once stephen!

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Elphaba Phan
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posted 08-11-2005 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elphaba Phan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It’s surprising how far this thread has gone on, since it only went on for four replies on the Musical forum.

Perhaps Stephen Schwartz was just confused when he wrote these songs, but given a choice, I’m going to go with Mr. Schwartz, who says that they are the same notes, and Idina Menzel, who was asked in an interview about the development of Wicked whether or not she had noticed and said that she definitely had (as the one who sings all the “unlimiteds/I’m limiteds” she should know, especially since she, like most professional singers, has also sung “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.”)

From an interview with Stephen Schwartz (emphasis added):

quote:
Schwartz was happy to speak about the ways he peppered his score with homages to Harold Arlen, who wrote the music for the movie THE WIZARD OF OZ. "What I thought was amusing and I wondered if people would get it, and of course people did, is that it's the first seven notes of 'Over the Rainbow.'" He plays from the section from "The Wizard and I" with the lyrics "Un-li-mi-ted, my fu-ture..."

"The reason that that's a joke is because according to copyright law, when you get to the eighth note, then people can come and say, 'Oh you stole our tune.' And of course obviously it's also disguised in that it's completely different rhythmically. And it's also harmonized completely differently so that it's not [he plays the familiar opening phrase]...It's over a different chord and so on, but still it's the first seven notes of 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow'."


Wicked's Web of Musical Themes

I play only guitar and am not at all good at transposition, so here’s a better explanation from an old post (not mine) that is musically correct:

“Same notes, same melody - we're not talking key, we're talking intervals. Pick a note, up an octave, down a second, down to the 5th, then step wise back up to the octave. (for Sound of Music fans): do, do, ti, sol, la, ti, do.”

According to Mr. Schwartz, there are five homages to the Wizard of Oz movie score in the score for Wicked, four of which are intentional and one that was coincidental. Except for the “Unlimited Theme” he also says that they are part of the underscoring which generally cannot be heard on the CD except possibly for the piccolo in “One Short Day” which was mixed into the CD score.

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Dr. Dillamond
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posted 08-12-2005 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Dillamond     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
nice Elphaba Phan!

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Saint Aelphaba
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posted 08-12-2005 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Saint Aelphaba     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow you do your research. No arguing with you there. I think it's cool how in incorparated Somewhere over the rainbow with the Wizard and I, actully the whole play. REALLY ties things together.

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elphaba_rocks
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posted 08-13-2005 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elphaba_rocks   Click Here to Email elphaba_rocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
when you put i that way Elphaba_phan i have to agree with you.

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